Todd Hunter (00:07.086)
Hi everybody. Like any form of communication has a context. This podcast today has a context and I want to name just a couple of things here. First, I'm aware that the C4SO podcast has a pretty broad listening audience. But today you're going to be overhearing me speak to our C4SO clergy and key lay leaders. I think anybody listening can learn and benefit and grow from it. But just want you to know like who's in my mind as I'm speaking today.

And the second thing is we have recently had our annual clergy conference. And just days before that, we'd had the election of our new bishop ordinary, Jeff Bailey, who will begin formally on May 1st as my successor. And so when we all showed up to this conference, I could feel that people were beginning to sense, you know, somewhere in their bones, the realness of this impending change.

And a sense of the election on Saturday and then our conference is midweek last week. You could sense an appropriate shift of focus towards Jeff and a curiosity about Jeff and the best sense of that word, curiosity. And it makes me want to say as we began, look, don't worry about me. This is all completely normal and I am really totally fine. I get that this shift is happening. It needs to happen. I welcome it.

And we just want to note today when we come to this feeling that, wow, this is really happening, that it provokes in us senses of change and change is always a little bit uncomfortable. It makes us wonder things like. What's the future going to be like when a person I do not know and who has huge power? Sorry, I got to stop. I got a cough. Hold on.

Todd Hunter (02:14.894)
somebody start again.

It raises questions like, what's the future like when a person I don't know has huge power? And of course, everybody has to be wondering, well, how does this affect me and how will it affect my church? know, people may wonder in a little more kind of fearful ways, wow, is this gonna change C4SO in tangible ways? Will any of our essential affinities change?

And I just want to say that change is a part of life. It's a part of life, not just biologically, it's not just in terms of our own bodies and our social selves, but it's a part of life in any sort of organization that even if I were to stay here long term, let's say I had 10 more years to work, I was 60 instead of 69, there would still be change even if I was here because change is a natural part of the growth of numbers and organizational development.

And I just want you to know today that I have a really strong assurance that any change that happens will in fact be in continuity with our essential vision and values. Now let's pivot a bit. The Bible doesn't give us a thorough theology that maps easily on to change management in modern organizations. But the Bible does give us a heart, an ethic.

a virtuous way to approach change management and that is servant leadership. So for instance in Matthew 20, it says that Jesus called the followers together and said to them, you know that the rulers of the non-Jewish people love to show their power over the people and their important leaders love to use all their authority over the people. But it should not be that way with you. Whoever wants to be your leader must be your servant.

Todd Hunter (04:09.772)
And whoever wants to be first must serve the rest of you like a slave. Do as I did. The Son of Man did not come for people to serve him. He came to serve others and to give his life to save many people." Now that is the style you might say, the vibe in which I've tried to lead C4SO and I think the various leaders throughout.

the organization of C4SO have tried to lead and that's not going to change. It's one thing to serve, let's say, in a kind of a static or normal season. It's another thing to lead through a season of change. But the virtue, the ethic, the style of leadership remains the same, whether it's normalcy or something changing. Now, pivoting again.

from the Bible to, you know, all of us have books in our lives that have been really transformative. And one of them for me is William Bridges' famous book, Transitions, Making Sense of Life's Changes. I forget when this book came out. It feels like maybe the 90s. I feel like for decades I've been making use of Bridges' work. And the core to Bridges' work that is so important is that there's a difference between, he says, change and transition.

He says, quote, it isn't the changes that do us in, it's the transitions. Change, he says, is situational, it's external. Something's happening, like in our case, my retirement and having a new bishop and hopefully two new bishops. But transition, Bridges says, is the psychological process that people go through in order to come to terms with the new situation.

So change is external, writes, where transition is internal. And that's what I want to help us think about today. It's our internal reactions to the change that's happening that we want to notice and process with the Spirit's help. Now, Bridge's names three stages in this process, an ending, a neutral zone, and a new beginning.

Todd Hunter (06:47.278)
Bridges teaches that transitions begin with an ending. And that is to say we must first let go of the old thing. That we need to let go of the past before we can brace

We need to let go of the past first before we can embrace the new era. And I know this is hard. It's hard to imagine for you maybe life without Todd. It's hard for me to imagine what's life going to be like, you know, without normal work or without C4SO. And it raises questions probably for all of us like, well, who am I now? And who will I be in this new era? And thinking like this simply marks something that bridges names.

as part and parcel of the ending phase of a transition, and that is disorientation. So we're all aware somewhere in our guts that something real is going to be left behind, but we're unable to fully and accurately predict the future. And this is what leaves us maybe a little bit confused, maybe a little uncertain, possessing some reservations, maybe we're feeling a little frustrated, a little empty.

Maybe we find ourselves in denial. And I think the one word for lots of us would just be grief, right? When you're letting something go, there's a part of grief that's attached to that. But, and this is a really helpful couple of sentences from Bridges, but no new time in life is possible without the death of the old season. To gain, we must first give up.

An ending, as Bridges articulates it, clears the ground for a new beginning, where we let go of the old way of being as we pick up the new one. So there's a progression, Bridges says, where we move from an ending to a neutral zone and then to a new beginning. And this is a very real and challenging process. It is a process to disengage from what's been known and then to find comfort in the new and to embrace it.

Todd Hunter (08:56.896)
And we all do it in different ways and at different paces. Like I'm sure there are similarities between me and you as we process this ending and many similarities between you and all of your colleagues. But there are also big differences. Anybody who knows me knows I'm not any kind of expert on the Enneagram, but just think of Enneagram differences or any of those temperament profiles that we use. know, all of this come to this transition very differently.

So I kind of feel like if you don't hear anything else in this podcast, my C4SO brothers and sisters, I want you to hear this. Be kind and gracious to yourself and to your colleagues. Everybody's carrying a little bit of a heavy, anxious load and will be for the next 10 or 12 months. So be kind and generous to yourself and to your colleagues. And if you need to find somebody to process with, you know,

Process with a colleague, process with a counselor, a spiritual director, a coach, mentor, whatever works for you. All right, so the previous era, which in our case was the founding era, C4SO was about 16 years old. So we had about a 16 year founding era, and that laid the foundation for the coming new era. So that means we treat the past with respect, and we're grateful for it, but the

The is not Lord. The past of C4SO was not perfect. I'm not perfect. The future of C4SO is not going to be perfect. But we do note the past, as I said, with respect and gratitude while reminding ourselves that the Lord is the Lord of our past and our present and the future. Well, so Bridges says that all transitions begin with an ending.

And then he says they pass through what he calls a neutral zone. And I think this is some of the best help in his book. When he says the phrase neutral zone, he's naming what I would call classic liminality. And I know that's just another big word. Maybe it doesn't help much more than neutral zone. But liminality is, it's, you know, it comes from the social sciences. It just, it's a word that describes where you're in between two spaces. So if you can picture the split second when you're walking from one room to another,

Todd Hunter (11:18.806)
So maybe your left foot is in the bedroom and your right foot is just about to fall into the hallway. That's a classic liminal space, a threshold kind of space where we're moving from one space to the other, but we're not quite fully in the new space. So the old is gone, it's going, but the new has not yet fully appeared. Now this produces in almost everybody,

A very interesting mix of anxiety, some confusion, but to me, this is the interesting part. Also creativity. People start analyzing the past and maybe learning things. They look at what's going on in the present and discover things. They start thinking about the future and they find creativity happening. So again, I would say don't judge yourself if you find in any given moment, you're feeling some mix of anxiety or confusion or creativity. It's really normal.

And I think the invitation for us here as Christians, as followers of Jesus, in this neutral zone, is to create space for doing inner work. To find moments where we can pause and think and consider and discuss and pray as we unlearn old self images that were rooted in the old thing and take on new ones. So for me as a follower of Jesus, I find that surrender and trust are core to the neutral zone.

was?

Todd Hunter (12:51.148)
And I want you to be aware that sometimes the neutral zone is not like bold and flashing neon lights. Often the neutral zone feels indirect and kind of unimpressive. And the months to come might feel that way. But what we want to engage with is just a step-by-step method of following a thoughtful process of noticing what it means to be in this time between the times. All right. So lastly,

Bridges says that having a transition beginning with an ending, passing through a neutral zone, then we come to making a new beginning. And what that means for us is while we hang on to the basic vision and values of C4SO and begin to live into the new reality, a new ordinary, a new suffragan, hopefully three bishops where just a year or so we only had one bishop.

We keep working to improve our structures and systems and processes and are articulating new ministry goals and strategies to reach them. As we kind of hang on on the one hand, that every, as we hang on on the one hand to that which has been constructed, we're also open to something new happening. And so in the new beginning, as we yield to it,

you'll start noticing a feeling of clarity coming and acceptance. And this will be a sure sign to you that you're entering into the new beginning. We begin to feel some of the goodness and the change. I already feel some of it. I can just picture the goodness that will come to C4SO with the addition of Jeff Bailey's The Ordinary and then another Suffragan and Brian that...

I can just imagine the, again, the goodness, for lack of a better word, the effectiveness, the fruitfulness that will come from this. And so again, we're aware that we're reaching the new beginning when we begin to have a sense of confidence and energy to learn and a commitment to future development. In the new beginning phase, we see that plans begin to.

Todd Hunter (15:08.662)
In the new beginning phase, we see the plans become clearer and execution on the plans begin, which then reinforces the learning cycle and kind of on and on we go. Now thinking about the normal anxieties and confusions that mark the ending in the neutral zone, when we get to the new beginning, we realize that we've gone through a period of faith. And John Wimber, founder of the Vineyard Church, is one of my early mentors, used to say,

faith is spelled R-I-S-K. R-I-S-K, risk. And we begin to see that, we're taking appropriate risks here, but it feels good, it feels right. And so I just want to assure you, while there may be some rare exception out there, I am quite confident that you are gonna fit the new era, that we can all fit into it.

and that the new era is actually gonna be a place where we can do our ministry within it better than ever.

Now, thinking about applying all that, the work of bridges of ending neutral zone, new beginning, and trying to map that onto what's happening here for us in C4SO, I want to say here that I know Jeff Bailey to be a very thoughtful person and very deliberative in the best sense of that term. And I'm quite confident that Jeff will be thoughtful about the scope of change.

and the pace of change and in getting all the appropriate information and perspectives that he needs to understand that building relationships, et cetera. And so there's no rush for us to feel here between now listening to this podcast, tell June when hopefully Jeff is consented to by the college. There's an orientation process going on that's peaceful and normal and, you know, it's it's exhaustive.

Todd Hunter (17:13.398)
Meaning, well, it's complex, I guess I mean to say, meaning there's a lot of moving parts in C4SO that we need to orient Jeff to, but we have a peaceful time to do it. And then from June until he's consecrated at the end of September, that process can continue. He can begin to understand every little moving part of the organization, have interviews with everybody in the organization who works for C4SO. All that can happen and unfold.

until we get to May of May 1st of 2026 and his installation. So just be at peace that this is unfolding, I think, in an intelligent and discerning way, actually trying to discern the spirit in these things.

So this leads me then to what are the formational issues of this kind of change? Like I think, as I've said, Bridges is brilliant on transitions begin with an ending, they go through a neutral zone, and only then do you come to the new beginning. But how do we map formational issues onto that?

I wonder where in the remarks you've heard so far have you felt an invitation from the Lord? And I'll go first here to model what I mean. The main formational issues that I've noticed over the last couple of weeks is first, that leaving C4SO for me is actually not that hard. Meaning I've never felt personal ownership of C4SO. I've always known that it was way bigger than me.

Even 16 years ago when it was just me and an idea in my head and heart, I knew it was bigger than me because I was doing something that I felt was from the Lord. And then of course, you know, in the earliest days, other people came around the vision. And so from the earliest days, I've known that the kind of the ownership of C4SO was much bigger and broader than me. So I've not felt some sort of.

Todd Hunter (19:25.518)
personal ownership of C4SO and the negative sense of now I'm having to let that go, what I felt is a special responsibility to God and our clergy and churches. And so while I'll greatly miss elements of my old life, I have a strong confidence in the shepherding of God, shepherding the future of C4SO. And that allows my leaving to be fundamentally in peace.

But retirement. Now that's a very different thing. That's the hard part for me. And it's what keeps me grounded and keeps me from being merely preachy here as I'm dealing with change in my own life and remembering afresh that every era of life or every incidence of change challenges us in new ways.

Those of you who are around see for so a lot. How many times have you heard me say we're always safe in the kingdom of God? Well, I find myself these days saying, OK, big boy with your big bridges, are you safe with God in retirement? What's the meaning of you when you don't have your normal work? How are you going to make how are you going to make retirement work financially, especially given what's happening to people's retirement investments now, et cetera? So this is something that, again, as I've said, I feel it.

differently than y'all do but all of us are going to be challenged in this ways and so what I've started doing over the the weeks and months leading up to this and then the last couple weeks since the election is I've just been trying to engage with Ignatian examine and just self-examination in a peaceful way just being present to my truest thoughts and that's actually a very important adjective my truest thoughts

not the thoughts, the sort of perfected thoughts that I should be thinking or that I ought to be thinking, but my truest thoughts when a fearful thought comes to just notice it or when an unsettling or anxious feeling comes to notice it, to examine it, that's what that means, to notice it, to see it, to be present to it. And then to just process them as they come up, process them with the Lord. And I always use the help of others. I have friends, I have a spiritual director, I have a coach.

Todd Hunter (21:47.634)
I always use the help of others for me to process these things. So here's some tips that I would like to give you as you find yourself trying to navigate this transition. Number one, I come into you that same practice. Just simply be attentive to yourself. Just don't let your mind and heart and soul race so fast, not only with just your work and your family and all that, you know, your whole life.

before you, but thoughts and feelings just when they pop up, just simply notice them. And then the second thing is really important. You need to do this in a nonjudgmental way and not just for yourself, but with your colleagues as you see colleagues responding, reacting to this in different ways. It's so important that in this year to come that we remain, we remain nonjudgmental.

And then of course, a close associate of that. And again, you've heard me talk about this many times is that we be attentive in non-anxious ways. There is nothing to be fearful of here. Whatever my real thoughts are of, man, how am going to make retirement work out financially? Or man, what exactly am going to do? And honestly, right now giving this podcast, I don't sense yet a clear calling from God about what are the kind of activities that he's calling me to after

being the founding leader of C4SO. And it's a challenge for me not to be anxious about it, but I just keep that before me, you know, the sense that there's nothing really to fear here. I really am always safe in the kingdom of God. And I just bring myself back to that. Now, I might have to do it once and then not again for two or three days, and then I might have to do it six times on a given day. And again, I just try not to judge myself about it. I just keep it real. I notice it.

And I deal with it. And the way I deal with it, this last tip, is to just simply practice the presence. So think of Decahsar, Brother Lawrence, you know, that body of literature of just learning to practice the presence of God, to just be present to him, to myself, and to the people and events of my moment-by-moment life. That's what always brings me back to some sort of groundedness. All right, I wanna leave you now with

Todd Hunter (24:16.65)
something that for me is a bit of biblical imagery that keeps me really grounded in my own faith. Before I read you these couple of short scriptures, I just want to ask you, as you hear them, to wonder, what if this is really real? What if you're about, what if,

What if what you're about to hear is as real as the step you take down the hallway or as real as the steering wheel that turns your car? When Paul wrote to the Ephesians, God appointed Jesus to be the head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything.

in every way.

Or as Paul wrote to the Colossians, Jesus is the head of the body, the church. He's the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead. So that in everything, he might have the supremacy.

Now, I'm aware that I'm the founder of C4SO, and I'm aware that I've led it for 16 years, and I'm aware that I'm the one that you've had kind of a primary leadership relationship with regarding C4SO. But I've always known, and I'm simply reminding all of us today, that actually Jesus is the head of the church. And if I've ever been a good leader,

Todd Hunter (26:08.63)
It's because I've been operating under that. Just simply trying to align myself with the Lordship of Jesus, the creativity of the Spirit, the intentionality of the Father. That's what makes us who we really are at our best. So those things being real. Confidence to you today. And peace to you.

and hope to you. And I want to leave you with a bit of a poem called For a New Beginning from John O'Donohue. It's a poem that I've sat with for several years now that is a way that brings me back to grounding when I need it. O'Donohue writes, though your destination is not yet clear, you can trust the promise of this opening.

Unfurl yourself into the grace of beginning. Awaken your spirit to adventure.

Hold nothing back. Learn to find ease in risk.

for soon you will home in a new rhythm.

Todd Hunter (27:33.163)
Amen.